I liked reading your last blog post tremendously! Just a couple of reminders:
1. Your original post must be at least 2 paragraphs. Please use correct grammar and punctuation.
2. You must respond to at least 1 other post in one paragraph.
When you write your post think about the following:
1. The doctors not telling Henrietta that the treatments would leave her infertile.
2. Deborah's and the family reluctance to help Rebecca.
3. The endless experiments done to Henrietta's cells.
Of course I want you to think of other interesting information. I can't wait to read your thoughts.
Chapters 5-9 were when the book began to get really interesting. In response to the questions above, I believe discrimination against the African-American race played a huge role in the doctors not informing Henrietta about the radium treatment, or any treatment for that matter, leaving her infertile. If Henrietta knew that the treatments were to leave her infertile, she would have never had the treatments. These treatments were so extreme that it even turned her skin black. The doctors also continuously sent her home, knowing that she was experiencing an extreme amount of pain and discomfort. Along with knowing that it would probably be the best action to book her into the hospital and make it easier for Henrietta because she would not have to be driven to Johns Hopkins every day, instead she would already be there.
ReplyDeleteDeborah and the Lacks' reluctancy was a direct result of all of the other scientists and/or researchers always contacting them about how they could get their hands on Henrietta's Cells. Although Rebecca was the only one that actually wanted to know what Henrietta was like and how she was during the time that she had cancer.
The experiments done on her cells were interesting. Especially when she had another treatment and another sample was taken per the words of Dr. Gey and these cells did not contine to live and grow. What made these cells die and not the previous samples?
I believe that Ms.Speed will be a great help to Rebecca, because Ms.Speed wants to open a museum on Henrietta Lacks and HeLa cells in order to inform the public about Henrietta's situation (not knowing about the cells being sold all over the world) and her "immortal cells. Rebecca and Ms.Speed will be a great tandem in informing the public via Ms.Speed's museum and Rebecca's book.
How were her cells interesting? You should elaborate on this. I also believe this gross malpractice was unjustified, because the doctors willfully burned her from the inside out without her consent. Today's hospitals are cautious of patient rights unlike Hopkins at the time, who I felt was only interested in havesting her cells.
DeleteHe said the experiments were interesting.
DeleteWill I think the other sample if I'm right was when she was further in the treatments. I think the radiation had hurt the cells, not enough to kill them when attached to her but when separated from her could no longer live.
Caitlin I also have to disagree with you. I don't think they just had a complete lack of interest of patient's rights it was just that they believed it was acceptable at the time. That asking a black patient for their consent to experiment on their cells was a waste of time. Like they said in the book that they didn't question the white people. That they were more educated and they knew what was best.
Blog entry #2- Chapters 5-9
ReplyDeleteTo an African American woman in the 1950's, her primary role was bearing and raising the children, in retrospect of today's society. Henrietta consented to treatments but did not know that these treatments would leave her infertile, whether it was a hind sighted miscommunication or simply that the doctors felt it didn't matter. But to Henrietta, the psychological impact of no longer being able to bear children was substantial, and would she have known would have probably never had radiation treatment done.
The family had reluctance to help Rebecca write her story because they have been harassed to the point of whole articles being written on information they never had access to as Mrs. Lacks immediate family. Doctors wanted blood samples from the family, but never gave told them why or gave them any indication on the impact HeLa had in the medical field. Henrietta's family should have emotional and monetary compensation for this gross malpractice which would be illegal under current legeslation.
i think that they were trying to help her by not informing her and benifit themself in the process. if they doctors had informed her she would have turned down treatment and died. another thing to think about if they had and she declined treatment we would not have all of the medicine and other tings that benifit everyone around the globe. I understand the emotional impact it had on her but thing about the impact it would have on the world if they didnt go through with it.
DeleteI know we should be focusing more so on the science portion of the book but in these past few chapters we needed to read the "science-y" stuff was about that scientist Carrel, who if I may say was a bit crazy. I do have a few questions about him though. Like what did they mean by immortal chicken heart? They made it seem as though the whole heart was living by itself but didn't they mean just the cells? Also I thought it was a bit funny that he thought he had immortal cells but he was just replacing them on accident or whatever. He was pretty brilliant though with being a frontier man of transplants and stuff. But the Nazi stuff was just a bit too much you know?
ReplyDeleteMore biology stuff: I was wondering why the radiation was blackening her. I understand how dangerous it was in the long run and that it killed the cells but why the pigment? Was it just too much radium? Nowadays they still use radiation treatment right? but in moderation? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to clear stuff for me.
Moving away from the science perspective though... A lot of these chapters were leaning more towards the mystery of why the family is so hesitant to talk to Rebecca. I mean at first Deborah was super talkative but after her calling back it was like oh well the family hasn't approved of me talking to you yet and whatnot. Sonny was the same way. Well he decided he was going to open up after talking to that guy and finding out she was a decent person but then he stood her up for their meeting. I have a good feeling about Ms. Speed aka Mama Speed. She seems to have the right feeling about Rebecca that she's genuine so hopefully Rebecca will get the information she's looking for.
This book is engulfing me:D
To somewhat answer your question about the radiation: When people go through radiation treatment the pigment of their skin turns from either pink to red if the patient is white, or black/brown to a black/brown with a hint of red. So its safe to assume that the radiation treatment was very extreme at that time which proceeded to cause her to become more and more red to the point that it darkened her. So this would mean that nowadays they scale back the radiation treatments quite a bit
DeleteI agree with you Sydnee about Carrel, he never actually had an immortal chicken heart. The cells actually died shortly after he tried growing them. It just shows how "ignorant" he was. That is why he was questioned a lot by peers and such. I feel that the fact that he was very racist will come up again in the story, possibly with something involving Henrietta. He felt that the "white" race was superior to all races and even thought that the "All men are equal" line in the Constitution should be removed.
DeleteAnd yes, today they still use radiation treatments, but in moderation. However, the extra radium treatments at her cervix could have played a huge role in the darkness of her skin. That's just a bit too much radiation to be inflicted on one's body.
I agree with the statements about Dr. Carrel. I feel as though he was such an extremist and was also so power hungry that he let his work fall short. It was even stated how he said he wanted to be a dictator. I feel that his immortal chicken heart was just a way to help grant him power and popularity but he became so consumed with trying to get such that he made the mistakes that he did. Maybe that is a factor as to why his immortal chicken heart turned out to never really be immortal in the first place. He just enjoyed his growing popularity so much that he didn't properly look everything through. He just seemed like a crazy character.
DeleteCarrel was a total creep. He had very racist opinions also, very similar to Hitlers. By 'immortal chicken heart', they don't mean an actual heart but cells from the heart. I do not think he was replacing them on accident, but he was doing it on purpose for the fame.
DeleteRadiation treatment blackens the skin. I don't know why it does this, but I think it is because the radiation is so powerful that it burns the skin. Just my opinion.
These last several chapters were truly interesting. I feel that the doctors didn't tell Henrietta about the treatments leaving her infertile because they simply did not see it fit to tell her. Or they just didn't think it mattered or cared enough to tell her, seeing as how Henrietta was a colored woman and the times did not call for much care about African Americans. I do wonder if the reasoning behind it could have been a bit more compassionate. Maybe they did not tell her because they knew she would have refused treatment, seeing as how bearing and caring for children was a woman's main life goal at the time, and they wanted to help her get better. Or maybe they did not care much for her at all and didn't tell her for scientific reasoning such as wanting to see how her body and her cells would react to the treatments. The process of undergoing treatment seemed unbearable; from the pain and weakness that it caused to physically turning Henrietta's skin black. I feel that the Lacks family was so reluctant to share any information with Rebecca because they were tired of being hounded by people for years about Henrietta and her cells. They must have felt that Rebecca was no different from any other scientist or journalist just looking for a story and possibly taking their words and fabricating them. They probably just did not want to be bothered after all of the emotional burdens that the family had to go through, especially with the fact that Deborah had a stroke prior due to all of the stress people were causing about her mother's cells.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree, Jenelle about the compassion the doctor must have had, however it is stated, '' Warning patients about fertility loss was a standard practice at Hopkins, and something Howard Jones says he and TeLinde did with every patient,'' therefore the doctors must have built up the tolerance to break these things to patients. I, myself am leaning towards the race issue.
DeleteI totally agree with you on this. Doctors gave into the evil of malpractice and threw their hippocratic oaths to the wayside just to use people like Henrietta a lab rats. I think the doctors refused to acknowledge the dangers of radiation therapy out of convenience. They literally cooked her from the inside out. Her family had a right to their anger towards the media. Can you imagine losing one of the people closest to you, and having people constantly pester you and remind you of said tragedy?
DeleteAs I read more into the book, I try to think of Henrietta Lacks as less of a character and more of a real person (like she is).In chapter 5, doing this was really easy. Skloot describes how Mrs.Lacks would sit on her bed, painting her toenails red: and I thought about myself. I began to realize how much of a real person, just like me, Henrietta was. These thoughts made me reflect on my life, how easily it could change, and I became grateful to be alive. I believe that racism played a major part in Henrietta's treatment. Though we cannot say for sure, that is my opinion. When i think about the 1950's and African-Americans, i think about mistreatment. Blacks were mistreated by whites, and they received far worse treatment than whites did during this time. Blacks weren't allowed to question the doctors, and doctors looked at the blacks as unimportant. In the book it says, "...several studies have shown that black patients were treated and hospitalized in later stages of their illnesses than white patients...they got fewer pain medications, and had higher mortality rates." This statement shows how blacks were not treated equally to whites, by no means. Dr.George Gey was a good man , I think, but inconsiderate. In my opinion, I don't believe he came to see Henrietta. There is only one witness to this occurrence, but i don't believe her.Also, instead of trying to figure out Henrietta's problem, Gey was greedy and tried to get more cells from Henrietta -which died because of toxins from Henriettas body.
ReplyDeleteAlexis Carrel. He was a man with good scientific intentions. He wanted to grow whole organs in his lab, so he could give away for transplants. Carrel had a great idea, and also a great plan. Thats all I have good to say about Carrel. The immortal chicken heart would have been a great achievement, this discovery would have changed America extremely: if it was real. If only... Humans might have the ability to be immortal by now, if that had been true. Thank God it wasn't. It was really interesting to me, how no one knew (except Carrel) that the immortal chicken cells were fake for over 20 years. Or did they know ?
The radiation treatment burnt Henrietta's skin. I think that is a common side effect of radiation. A family member of mine had radiation treatments, and this 'skin blackening' also happened to them. I believe the radiation should have worked to kill the tumors in Henrietta; but they obviously did not. None of the treatments seemed to work for Henrietta ,although the Dromoran did for a little while; it didn't work for long.
Jaida, I agree with you. I do not think Dr. Gey went to see Henrietta. He is described as a doctor who is consumed with his work and very little human contact. I feel Dr. Carrel was a nut case! He actually lied to people about the heart cells to promote his own cause. This led to people not believing other important issues in scence and not taking the seriousness of the HeLa cells.
DeleteChapters 5 to 10, seemed to be the rising action of the book; it was interesting and fulfilling. Readers and myself are put into a position of empathy, especially in, ''Blackness Be Spreadin All Inside,'' in which Henrietta is informed she is infertile because of the psychic effect of hysterectomy. It is said most women posses a motherly instinct and for Henrietta, a loving mother of five to hear she can no longer reproduce, is heart wrenching. The failed deliverance of this message could be the cause of Henrietta's race. The Tuskegee syphilis study precisely denotes how insignificant African Americans were viewed in prior decades and the failed deliverance of the message could have probably been seen as inconsequential to the deliverer. The lack of information on Henrietta's part is somewhat beneficial, however. If Henrietta had another child, she could have possibly died or the child could have suffered. It is clearly a lose:lose situation.
ReplyDeleteThe family of Henrietta had every right to be bitter with media,science and especially hungry journalists. It must have been a reoccurring annoyance for journalists to call repeatedly for information about a dead family member, that cannot be peacefully forgotten. Rebecca in the Lacks family's eyes would have been seen as no different from other eager journalists.
In the '' Death and Life of Cell Culture,'' Skloot writes ''Henrietta's cells were so precious because they allowed scientists to perform experiments that would have been impossible for a living human.'' Although the plethora of experiments on the cells proved nothing, it still acted as a gateway for scientists to experiment on
an actual cell; it is still beneficial.
The book is lovely. Skloot's valor and morality of this case is purely admirable! What an engulfing read.
I thoroughly enjoyed yet despised chapters 5-9, because i started to delve into scientific side of the story but it didn't stray away from the social side. it talked about the hardships that black people had to face as a whole by being thought of as a "syphilis-soaked race." Skloot also uses Henrietta as one of these examples. The doctors committed malpractice without a second thought. They illegally stole tissue and other cells from patients without permission or acknowledgement of risks that the procedures posed to their health. What truly disgusted me, was the fact that that Gey tried to steal Henrietta's cells not once but twice. Doctors even falsified documents by saying they told Henrietta that the radiation treatments would most likely leave her infertile even though she had no knowledge of that fact prior to the radiation treatments.
ReplyDeleteI liked the fact that Skloot took the time to meander through the backgrounds and specific quirks of the scientists instead of just offering up the information of their contributions. Now, I really don't believe that the scientists were at fault in this situation, because they didn't steal the cells; Dr. Gey stole them. Another thing that i found interesting was the degree in wich radiation was administered to patients at that and how crude the procedure was. the doctors literally sewed a tube of radium into the wall of her cervix as a form of treatment. Scientist and doctors even carried tubes of radium in their pockets with only a thin wall of cloth to separate their skin from the radium. Biologists around the world didn't even know of techniques to sterilize their labs to keep cultures safe from death. Even though Henrietta and her cells have gone through a never-ending storm of crap, the world got a miracle out of it. Just as she said; at least her constant pain helped end the pain and sickness of others.
Edward, I also cringed when I read about scientist carrying radium around recklessly! How did they think it would treat cancer when one of the side effects is that is causing cancer.
Deletethroughout history scientist have used african americans as lab rats this is one of the factors that lead to them not telling henrietta a another factor is they time period. with all that rasicm they probobly felt she wasnt intitled to know or that if they told her they wouldnt get the samples they needed. yet if you think about it even if it was unethical for them not to tell her and then turn around and lie about their action not ony benifited them but the whole world years to come. in this case the endes justified the means. the countless experiment done to the hela cells help solve medical mysters and other thing they been trying to crack it made medicine more efficient. all these factors lead in to the family of henrietta lacks. they felt like a part of their mother was stolen and they were not even compinsated for it. the family was reluctant to talk to rebbca because they been harrased by millions of people and cheated out wa=hat was theirs.i think that the family is entitled to something because with out them hela cells would not exsist and wouldnt be avialable for anyone.
ReplyDeletescientist used African Americans as experimental tester for a long time. when the doctor injected syphilis into the men it was basically to see if it would work and it did by killing them as i read on there trying to use Henrietta cells to kill cancer which is a really great idean. HeLa cells are used on so many occassion in this time today her cells help make plenty of medicines.As they say in the book "her cells were precious becausee they allowed scientist to perform exp. that would be impposible on a human" whats the difference between any other human cells dead or alive. HeLa family has every right to be upset and not want to talk about it because no doctor ever let them know what they were trying to do or doing.
ReplyDeletewhen Henrietta told the docotrs that she thought the cancer was spreading they should have done operation immedialtely.but there was still segregation where she lived so she couldnt question a white person judgment.i do believe if she was white she would have gotten the best treatment at that time. i do think there was some ways to really help here. Dr.Gey tried getting more of her cells but they had died because she been getting to much medicines (toxins)
ReplyDeleteThese chapters may be my favorite out of them all so far, while i am not a huge fan of the science part of these types of novels Rebecca Sloot does a wonderful job at making it interesting. I have no clue whether its just the story behind it or her writing, or a combination of both. I feel as if the doctor opting not to tell her may have been the right decision as far as furthering the realm of science however legally it was a case of gross misconduct and malpractice. It is quite understandable as to why they refused to disclose this information due to the fact there was a strong possibility that she would refuse.
ReplyDeleteAnother part that really piqued my interests was the relentless testing and outcomes of HeLa's cells. I still would like to know why that one select group of cells ordered by Dr. Gay have a totally different outcome than the other ninety nine percent and actually die? All in all it appears as if this book is getting better and better as it goes along.
The research in this book are very noticible in this chapter, especially when it goes into the different tests and experiments done on Henrietta's cells. It really shows how they could have been such a big deal at that time.
ReplyDeleteIt is also evident in the description of her physical appearance and her reaction to being infertile. That, of course could have been due to the doctors neglegance and her being a black patient. Her family seemed very reluctant to help and others seemed afraid to for some reason